Natter
David Ware
Well they say that is a small world, and the story I am about to tell really confirms that. Last Sunday I returned from a 12 night cruise to Ireland and Iceland. One night my wife, son and I decided to visit the theatre to see the show. We saw some friends we had met on the ship and decided to change seats with another couple to be near them. I ended up sitting next to a man who I had never seen on the ship before and we started talking. We mentioned that we both came from North London; me Bewdley Street (off Liverpool Road) and he from Essex Road. I then asked what school he went to. Well, blow me, it was Barnsbury, we were in the same year but different classes. His name was Peter Ford and mine is David Ware. Of course, we then spent a lot of time trying to remember names. Harry Shah, the Maths teacher, we both remembered: well our knuckles did.
He mentioned his cousin, James Allen, who was friends with my cousin, Bill Hunt. A classmate of mine, Leslie Gordon, was one of his friends and he had visited him in Spain where he now lives, he said that he had married a foreign girl. I asked him if he knew Roy Murray, David Ashby or Leslie Webb but he did not recollect them. You really could not make all this up, with 3000 passengers on the ship we managed to sit next to each other.
I had a look at your website and noticed a photo of a reunion of some of the football team. One of these is Roger Osborn. I was best man at his wedding and unfortunately we lost touch. His mother and mine used to work together at Lockwood's bakery in Liverpool Road.
I happened to look at the obituaries and was shocked to see John Godfrey had passed away. I remember him well from Laycock School and Barnsbury with his long blond hair.
Well they say that is a small world, and the story I am about to tell really confirms that. Last Sunday I returned from a 12 night cruise to Ireland and Iceland. One night my wife, son and I decided to visit the theatre to see the show. We saw some friends we had met on the ship and decided to change seats with another couple to be near them. I ended up sitting next to a man who I had never seen on the ship before and we started talking. We mentioned that we both came from North London; me Bewdley Street (off Liverpool Road) and he from Essex Road. I then asked what school he went to. Well, blow me, it was Barnsbury, we were in the same year but different classes. His name was Peter Ford and mine is David Ware. Of course, we then spent a lot of time trying to remember names. Harry Shah, the Maths teacher, we both remembered: well our knuckles did.
He mentioned his cousin, James Allen, who was friends with my cousin, Bill Hunt. A classmate of mine, Leslie Gordon, was one of his friends and he had visited him in Spain where he now lives, he said that he had married a foreign girl. I asked him if he knew Roy Murray, David Ashby or Leslie Webb but he did not recollect them. You really could not make all this up, with 3000 passengers on the ship we managed to sit next to each other.
I had a look at your website and noticed a photo of a reunion of some of the football team. One of these is Roger Osborn. I was best man at his wedding and unfortunately we lost touch. His mother and mine used to work together at Lockwood's bakery in Liverpool Road.
I happened to look at the obituaries and was shocked to see John Godfrey had passed away. I remember him well from Laycock School and Barnsbury with his long blond hair.
Bertie Worster
Welcome to the group, David Ware. Were we in class together at some point? I am sure we shared other classes such as handcrafts or printing with Mr. Martyn the geography teacher. I lived in New North Road. Were you Essex Road? I read your article and recalled that the same thing happened to me. On a cruise ship after dinner along with my wife and friends we had drinks aft of the ship. A chap looked at me and exclaimed Martin Worster. I replied Lionel Feldman. We recognized each other after forty odd years had passed. A similar thing happened at a concert at Leeds Castle. It was Steve Hems. We called him "Smee."
Michael Stewart
I remember most of those names you mention; Gordon, Murray, Ashby and Webb. I was in the same class as them, 5C was it? The 'C' stood for commerce and not for any other meaning. The first three were very brainy as far as I recall, and another brainiac was Strevens. Webb, as I mentioned in a previous email had a run-in with Rozzer Richards. He was horrifically physically abused by him during a maths lesson. I think Ashby became an actuary.
Barry Page
Mike's reply was an interesting memory as I, too, remember those names. However, it was George Rice and not Rozzer who assaulted Leslie Webb. I can recall the incident as if it had just happened, such was the ferocity of the attack. It's described as follows:
George Rice was singularly nasty; indeed, even sadistic. A short man with a permanent stoop, he would prowl along the corridors in a distinct lope and scowl at all and sundry through bespectacled froglike eyes. As our mathematics teacher, he took to task any boy who was inattentive and produced poor results. A case in point was his victimization of one lad in particular, whose name was Leslie Webb. During one lesson, this inoffensive boy was summoned to the front of the class and grilled by Mr. Rice over a trivial matter. Webb blubbered some comment, to which Mr. Rice accused him in a loud voice, “You’re a LIAR!” At which point he requested Webb to remove his eyeglasses and the boy complied. Next came a complete surprise to everyone as Mr. Rice swiped the back of his hand across Webb’s cheek, raising a red welt.
John Fairbanks
George Rice was the master who got you to sit at your desk, hold out your arm and hand (palm side down) and then whack you across the back of your hand with a ruler on edge - so, in effect like being struck with a knife, but without any danger of breaking the skin. He did that to me once and having caught the vein in my middle finger, it ballooned up where the vein was temporarily crushed and the blood didn't flow through.
Can you imagine that happening with today's kids?
Tam Joseph
I remember that paedo-sadist very well and can even visualise him. He showed me what he was made of by kneeing me in the thigh for not getting into a line up quick enough.
Russell Profitt
Bayliss was better at maths and chalk chucking...
Anyway, I remember in a Rice class one day one of us black kids said something to him he was unhappy with and he got so upset that he screamed at the top of his voice, "Don't you talk to an Englishman that way!!" We all crashed out laughing our heads off as I think he was a Welshman!! What an angry person he was!!
Roger Osborn
I remember that bastard Rice with his bit of Lino he bent kids over with after whacking them hard with it gleefully putting another notch in it. In his maths class for algebra he never saw my classwork or homework for the whole year. Needless to say at exam time I got 0 out of 100!
Shows what a fucking good teacher he wasn't.
Mickey Isaacs
Rice was a slimy little rat of a man who not only enjoyed beating boys, but also touching them up. It happened to me and others. Hope he rots.
Welcome to the group, David Ware. Were we in class together at some point? I am sure we shared other classes such as handcrafts or printing with Mr. Martyn the geography teacher. I lived in New North Road. Were you Essex Road? I read your article and recalled that the same thing happened to me. On a cruise ship after dinner along with my wife and friends we had drinks aft of the ship. A chap looked at me and exclaimed Martin Worster. I replied Lionel Feldman. We recognized each other after forty odd years had passed. A similar thing happened at a concert at Leeds Castle. It was Steve Hems. We called him "Smee."
Michael Stewart
I remember most of those names you mention; Gordon, Murray, Ashby and Webb. I was in the same class as them, 5C was it? The 'C' stood for commerce and not for any other meaning. The first three were very brainy as far as I recall, and another brainiac was Strevens. Webb, as I mentioned in a previous email had a run-in with Rozzer Richards. He was horrifically physically abused by him during a maths lesson. I think Ashby became an actuary.
Barry Page
Mike's reply was an interesting memory as I, too, remember those names. However, it was George Rice and not Rozzer who assaulted Leslie Webb. I can recall the incident as if it had just happened, such was the ferocity of the attack. It's described as follows:
George Rice was singularly nasty; indeed, even sadistic. A short man with a permanent stoop, he would prowl along the corridors in a distinct lope and scowl at all and sundry through bespectacled froglike eyes. As our mathematics teacher, he took to task any boy who was inattentive and produced poor results. A case in point was his victimization of one lad in particular, whose name was Leslie Webb. During one lesson, this inoffensive boy was summoned to the front of the class and grilled by Mr. Rice over a trivial matter. Webb blubbered some comment, to which Mr. Rice accused him in a loud voice, “You’re a LIAR!” At which point he requested Webb to remove his eyeglasses and the boy complied. Next came a complete surprise to everyone as Mr. Rice swiped the back of his hand across Webb’s cheek, raising a red welt.
John Fairbanks
George Rice was the master who got you to sit at your desk, hold out your arm and hand (palm side down) and then whack you across the back of your hand with a ruler on edge - so, in effect like being struck with a knife, but without any danger of breaking the skin. He did that to me once and having caught the vein in my middle finger, it ballooned up where the vein was temporarily crushed and the blood didn't flow through.
Can you imagine that happening with today's kids?
Tam Joseph
I remember that paedo-sadist very well and can even visualise him. He showed me what he was made of by kneeing me in the thigh for not getting into a line up quick enough.
Russell Profitt
Bayliss was better at maths and chalk chucking...
Anyway, I remember in a Rice class one day one of us black kids said something to him he was unhappy with and he got so upset that he screamed at the top of his voice, "Don't you talk to an Englishman that way!!" We all crashed out laughing our heads off as I think he was a Welshman!! What an angry person he was!!
Roger Osborn
I remember that bastard Rice with his bit of Lino he bent kids over with after whacking them hard with it gleefully putting another notch in it. In his maths class for algebra he never saw my classwork or homework for the whole year. Needless to say at exam time I got 0 out of 100!
Shows what a fucking good teacher he wasn't.
Mickey Isaacs
Rice was a slimy little rat of a man who not only enjoyed beating boys, but also touching them up. It happened to me and others. Hope he rots.
Michael Stewart
Yes, Rice was a Welshman as was Sharr, Pethorick, Leese and, of course, the Bonk. There certainly was a welcome in the valley in our school. Richards is a Welsh name; was he of Welsh descent? The time Rice (and some other teachers) spent prancing around performing their sadistic, evil, king of the shit-heap rituals could have been spent actually teaching something. They robbed us of a proper education. Did anyone complain to the Bonk or any sympathetic teacher about what they were up to? I believe I read an email a long way back about an ex-Barnsburian or his brother bumping into Rice in a pub and taking him outside and thumping him one. Is this true? I hope so.
Tam Joseph
A mixture of Welshmen and Jews I think (Sharr, Cohen, Bloom, Mr Genus (a useless bastard) and let us not forget the coooold bloodied…. Mr Welsh (was he Welsh?) But on the whole though I think our teachers were a good lot.
We are talking about Post War Britain here guys. Things were not easy in the UK and believe me they were less than easy in the colonies where I came from. Men like Rice n’ Richards…. are to be pitied more than hated.
Michael Stewart
Rozzer also savaged Webb. I remember him grabbing hold of his hair and 'throwing' him around the room by his roots. It was quite frightening. I was going to say hair-razing but I'm glad I didn't.
Barry Page
I'm sure, now, that you're correct. Simply because this was one of Rozzer's favourite forms of punishment. The following was dredged from my GoBBs archives, and Roger Osborn (the author of the story) can verify the episode.
(10/04/14) The story of John Titmarsh (JT) goes like this :-
"At the end of a PT lesson as the box was being pushed back into the corner JT jumped on the moving box. Rozzer saw this and his faced turned to thunder pulled JT off the box grabbed him by his blond hair and to our amazement swung him off the ground by his hair. Then as JT was crying his eyes out made him remove his slipper from his foot then continued to beat him on his backside. It was so savage I have never forgot it (it was 1956 or 1957).
At the end of the day, Mr Madley came into our class (in his usual attire of red track suit) and apologised to us all for what we had witnessed---which for those times must be unique!"
John Fairbanks
Continuing the Welsh theme Tam, don't forget Dick Leece, PE & RE, and Mr Hughes, music, and of course, The Bonk. Then there was the Jewish Humpy Fishman - history, Isaac Reuben - physics. Any others
Michael Stewart
I think we are to be pitied more; we got a second class education. I would have thought post-war times were a good deal better than being stuck in a muddy trench on the western front where everything was far from being quiet. Stepping between mines or dodging bullets, was that a doddle compared to teaching little boys? Perhaps confronting the Nazis rubbed off on them and they thought their methods just dandy. I don't think it was shell-shock. I reckon the boys who were on the receiving ends of their methods might have suffered more shell-shock.
Mickey Simmonds
Thinking about the teachers we all knew who the bullies were, but there were some good teachers like Neath, who was a very gentle person. Walton, another good guy. These two were also the brunt of a lot of the boys who took liberties with them. Among the other good guys were Bill Bayliss, Mr Trainer, Mr Leech and Mr Martyn. But no one took liberties with them.
Paul Kenealy
Gents. Allow me to add my two pennuth, for what it’s worth.
I can only remember the good teachers who I thought steered me in the right direction. Top of the list for me was George Bean; great guy. He let me and Billy P-J bunk off lessons we didn’t want to attend by letting us tidy the metalwork room. He repaired my trumpet once when I dropped it during a band performance. I was shit scared to go home with it broken because I knew my Mum and Dad were paying for it at about ten bob a week, and still had another year to pay. George Bean made it good as new.
Mr Petherick was my first form teacher and I have him to thank for my vocabulary and love of reading ( I’m not talking about the town on the Paddington to Bristol line).
Mr Walton gave me a morning off a week in the 5th year to go up town too view the art galleries (I didn’t tell him I spent the afternoons in the 2 I’s).
Last but not least, first McHugh who taught me how to play and read music, then when he left, Mr Hughes (another Welshman) who took over the band, but allowed us to try to play jazz in the band room. He supplied the Dizzy Gillespie/Charlie Parker records.
I only left with three ‘O’ levels, but the experience of and love of learning has stayed with me for 50 years.
Dave Brearey
I can't say that I considered Barnsbury as giving me a second class education. In fact when I came down to Devon having left school a few months earlier than the norm and missing out on sitting my 'O' levels, I found that all the exams that I subsequently sat at Exeter College extremely easy going. This I believe was due to having had a first rate education at Barnsbury. Possibly fearing some of the more notorious teachers and their tactics kept me in good stead!
Bill Pitt-Jones
I was the 3rd of 4 brothers who attended Barnsbury.
The original title was Barnsbury Central School for Boys - 'Central' meaning in between Grammar and Elementary School - They had the pick of the children who only just failed the 11+ by a few marks.
It was well known in education circles as a Welsh enclave and would covertly only employ Welshmen. My brothers remember and detest the names Rice and Richards - who in particular hated the English with venom.
Because of our Welsh name we were never bothered by them. In fact one brother was presented with an expensive fountain pen by Rice - yes, RICE - for coming first in an exam.
I doubt very much any of the bastards did war service, teaching being a reserved occupation.
(Killer) Cohen who came after the expansion of the school when it changed to a Secondary, along with others such as Petheric, Rubins and Fishman. He was my form teacher for a couple of years at Copenhagen and I have no REAL beef with. He told us he joined the RAF in the war and was sent to flying school in Canada, but by the time he qualified the war was over.
Barry Page
An excellent conversation! The old school spirit is alive and well given these memories and opinions.
I suspect our standard of learning then probably surpasses that of today, regardless of modern technology and the Internet. Why? Because we learned by rote, and discipline was the name of the game. It was hard graft and expectations were high, which made us study diligently under the lash. Homework was a killer; especially when confronted, for example, with several problems involving quadratic equations (how I hated them!).
The standards were maintained by the Bonk and his team. It was in his interest to show the ILEA that Barnsbury was 'up to snuff.' I agree there were good and bad teachers. We knew in which category they were pigeonholed, and the names you listed bears this out. In certain cases, corporal punishment was justified: although I'm sure we can each cite an example where the teacher has gone over the top. Such discipline kept us in line, and the lack of it shows up in the attitudes found in much of today's so called disaffected youth.
I enjoyed my years at BBS and was glad to know the likes of Bean, Godsall, Walton, Graham and Puddefoot – all mentors to me.
Roger Bartlett
Hi, I was beginning to doubt I went to the same school. Glad to see I wasn't the only one who enjoyed school, maybe being born in N. WALES stood me in good stead, but I still had to work for the ten GCEs I left with. I was also pretty good at sport although soccer passed me by so there was never a sharp word from Mr. Richards except when he caught me smoking at a District Sports meet, but as I won my race nothing more was said.
It couldn't have been too bad we are still reminiscing after almost sixty years.
John Tythe
I think I can give an explanation as to why there were so many Welsh teachers in the school. It wasn’t just a Barnsbury thing but an English schools thing.
I met a old, retired Welsh headmaster on the last Cruise I was on. We shared the same table for 4 nights out of 7 at dinner, so got to know him quite well. He told me that entering the teaching profession in Wales was encouraged after the war, but once they had completed their training, there were no jobs for them and were told to seek employment in England, which they did in their thousands.
I mentioned the sadistic bastards that were at our school, and he was not surprised. He said that he used to enjoy giving the cane to boys, but never did cane girls, although he knew of those that did enjoy it.
So we weren’t unlucky, as it was rife throughout England. Kids today don’t know what suffering is!
Yes, Rice was a Welshman as was Sharr, Pethorick, Leese and, of course, the Bonk. There certainly was a welcome in the valley in our school. Richards is a Welsh name; was he of Welsh descent? The time Rice (and some other teachers) spent prancing around performing their sadistic, evil, king of the shit-heap rituals could have been spent actually teaching something. They robbed us of a proper education. Did anyone complain to the Bonk or any sympathetic teacher about what they were up to? I believe I read an email a long way back about an ex-Barnsburian or his brother bumping into Rice in a pub and taking him outside and thumping him one. Is this true? I hope so.
Tam Joseph
A mixture of Welshmen and Jews I think (Sharr, Cohen, Bloom, Mr Genus (a useless bastard) and let us not forget the coooold bloodied…. Mr Welsh (was he Welsh?) But on the whole though I think our teachers were a good lot.
We are talking about Post War Britain here guys. Things were not easy in the UK and believe me they were less than easy in the colonies where I came from. Men like Rice n’ Richards…. are to be pitied more than hated.
Michael Stewart
Rozzer also savaged Webb. I remember him grabbing hold of his hair and 'throwing' him around the room by his roots. It was quite frightening. I was going to say hair-razing but I'm glad I didn't.
Barry Page
I'm sure, now, that you're correct. Simply because this was one of Rozzer's favourite forms of punishment. The following was dredged from my GoBBs archives, and Roger Osborn (the author of the story) can verify the episode.
(10/04/14) The story of John Titmarsh (JT) goes like this :-
"At the end of a PT lesson as the box was being pushed back into the corner JT jumped on the moving box. Rozzer saw this and his faced turned to thunder pulled JT off the box grabbed him by his blond hair and to our amazement swung him off the ground by his hair. Then as JT was crying his eyes out made him remove his slipper from his foot then continued to beat him on his backside. It was so savage I have never forgot it (it was 1956 or 1957).
At the end of the day, Mr Madley came into our class (in his usual attire of red track suit) and apologised to us all for what we had witnessed---which for those times must be unique!"
John Fairbanks
Continuing the Welsh theme Tam, don't forget Dick Leece, PE & RE, and Mr Hughes, music, and of course, The Bonk. Then there was the Jewish Humpy Fishman - history, Isaac Reuben - physics. Any others
Michael Stewart
I think we are to be pitied more; we got a second class education. I would have thought post-war times were a good deal better than being stuck in a muddy trench on the western front where everything was far from being quiet. Stepping between mines or dodging bullets, was that a doddle compared to teaching little boys? Perhaps confronting the Nazis rubbed off on them and they thought their methods just dandy. I don't think it was shell-shock. I reckon the boys who were on the receiving ends of their methods might have suffered more shell-shock.
Mickey Simmonds
Thinking about the teachers we all knew who the bullies were, but there were some good teachers like Neath, who was a very gentle person. Walton, another good guy. These two were also the brunt of a lot of the boys who took liberties with them. Among the other good guys were Bill Bayliss, Mr Trainer, Mr Leech and Mr Martyn. But no one took liberties with them.
Paul Kenealy
Gents. Allow me to add my two pennuth, for what it’s worth.
I can only remember the good teachers who I thought steered me in the right direction. Top of the list for me was George Bean; great guy. He let me and Billy P-J bunk off lessons we didn’t want to attend by letting us tidy the metalwork room. He repaired my trumpet once when I dropped it during a band performance. I was shit scared to go home with it broken because I knew my Mum and Dad were paying for it at about ten bob a week, and still had another year to pay. George Bean made it good as new.
Mr Petherick was my first form teacher and I have him to thank for my vocabulary and love of reading ( I’m not talking about the town on the Paddington to Bristol line).
Mr Walton gave me a morning off a week in the 5th year to go up town too view the art galleries (I didn’t tell him I spent the afternoons in the 2 I’s).
Last but not least, first McHugh who taught me how to play and read music, then when he left, Mr Hughes (another Welshman) who took over the band, but allowed us to try to play jazz in the band room. He supplied the Dizzy Gillespie/Charlie Parker records.
I only left with three ‘O’ levels, but the experience of and love of learning has stayed with me for 50 years.
Dave Brearey
I can't say that I considered Barnsbury as giving me a second class education. In fact when I came down to Devon having left school a few months earlier than the norm and missing out on sitting my 'O' levels, I found that all the exams that I subsequently sat at Exeter College extremely easy going. This I believe was due to having had a first rate education at Barnsbury. Possibly fearing some of the more notorious teachers and their tactics kept me in good stead!
Bill Pitt-Jones
I was the 3rd of 4 brothers who attended Barnsbury.
The original title was Barnsbury Central School for Boys - 'Central' meaning in between Grammar and Elementary School - They had the pick of the children who only just failed the 11+ by a few marks.
It was well known in education circles as a Welsh enclave and would covertly only employ Welshmen. My brothers remember and detest the names Rice and Richards - who in particular hated the English with venom.
Because of our Welsh name we were never bothered by them. In fact one brother was presented with an expensive fountain pen by Rice - yes, RICE - for coming first in an exam.
I doubt very much any of the bastards did war service, teaching being a reserved occupation.
(Killer) Cohen who came after the expansion of the school when it changed to a Secondary, along with others such as Petheric, Rubins and Fishman. He was my form teacher for a couple of years at Copenhagen and I have no REAL beef with. He told us he joined the RAF in the war and was sent to flying school in Canada, but by the time he qualified the war was over.
Barry Page
An excellent conversation! The old school spirit is alive and well given these memories and opinions.
I suspect our standard of learning then probably surpasses that of today, regardless of modern technology and the Internet. Why? Because we learned by rote, and discipline was the name of the game. It was hard graft and expectations were high, which made us study diligently under the lash. Homework was a killer; especially when confronted, for example, with several problems involving quadratic equations (how I hated them!).
The standards were maintained by the Bonk and his team. It was in his interest to show the ILEA that Barnsbury was 'up to snuff.' I agree there were good and bad teachers. We knew in which category they were pigeonholed, and the names you listed bears this out. In certain cases, corporal punishment was justified: although I'm sure we can each cite an example where the teacher has gone over the top. Such discipline kept us in line, and the lack of it shows up in the attitudes found in much of today's so called disaffected youth.
I enjoyed my years at BBS and was glad to know the likes of Bean, Godsall, Walton, Graham and Puddefoot – all mentors to me.
Roger Bartlett
Hi, I was beginning to doubt I went to the same school. Glad to see I wasn't the only one who enjoyed school, maybe being born in N. WALES stood me in good stead, but I still had to work for the ten GCEs I left with. I was also pretty good at sport although soccer passed me by so there was never a sharp word from Mr. Richards except when he caught me smoking at a District Sports meet, but as I won my race nothing more was said.
It couldn't have been too bad we are still reminiscing after almost sixty years.
John Tythe
I think I can give an explanation as to why there were so many Welsh teachers in the school. It wasn’t just a Barnsbury thing but an English schools thing.
I met a old, retired Welsh headmaster on the last Cruise I was on. We shared the same table for 4 nights out of 7 at dinner, so got to know him quite well. He told me that entering the teaching profession in Wales was encouraged after the war, but once they had completed their training, there were no jobs for them and were told to seek employment in England, which they did in their thousands.
I mentioned the sadistic bastards that were at our school, and he was not surprised. He said that he used to enjoy giving the cane to boys, but never did cane girls, although he knew of those that did enjoy it.
So we weren’t unlucky, as it was rife throughout England. Kids today don’t know what suffering is!
A page provided to contributors who wish to make observations for others to respond to. Please restrict topics to non-controversial items and exercise good taste; that is, no defamatory, profane or blasphemous comments.
Barry Page
Anybody remember these joints? Bring back memories?
Mickey Isaacs
I've actually been in there, it was painted black with skeletons and ghouls painted on the walls. I went with my parents when I was about 10. I'm sure some of the Barnsbury teachers would feel quite at home there.
Paul Kenealy
By the look of the clothes that picture could have been taken in the late 50’s, a bit early for me. I started going to soho when I was 14, so about 1962. The club Heaven and Hell was as I remember in Bateman street or Meard Street which linked Dean to Frith. That was before Ronnie’s moved from Gerrard to Frith.
I was allowed by Mr Walton in 5th year, so aged 15, to miss one morning a week to go to the National Gallery as I was ‘doing’ history of art, cos dear ol’ Walton didn’t have enough students doing ‘proper’ art to fill his GCE class. Naturally having visited the galleries I would end up in the Two I’s or Heaven and Hell for a frothy coffee and a leer at the girls who were older, wiser and too good looking to be interested in a spotty skinny runt bunking off school. I would get back on the tube from Leicester Square back to Holloway Road for the afternoon lessons.
Sometimes I would persuade Griff Lewis or Jerry Sibley to join me, but mostly I was on my own. That’s why the only GCE’s I got were History of Art, and modern London Rock n Roll. In my later years when I was supposed to be driving a cab nights, I would often pop into Ronnie’s for a nightcap, then in the morning tell my wife that I’d had a quiet night, and spent time in the café with my mates. Happy Days
Russell Profitt
I was nearly in Soho today. [6/12/13] Got out of tube at Tottenham Court Road station today and Soho was blocked off. Seems that a new station for Crossrail is being dug and built there, opposite Centre Point building - remember that going up? I was there because I bought shares in Associated British Foods. They own clothes retailer Primark. Each year I go to the AGM to protest against their use of cheap labour in places like Bangladesh etc.
This year, in addition to that, I had a go about the fact that its impossible to buy stuff in Primark and get out quickly as their queues are so long and they never have enough staff on the tills!! The Chairman said he was sorry for that but its because they were over trading (!!) [is that a tip to buy ABF, Russell? - Ed] Then, at the end they gave us all a bag of goodies, including a Christmas bobble hat with reindeers on it and some Twinings tea, Partake curry stuff, mince pies, some Primark stuff including a horrible purple tie…and a cuppa!!…. heigh ho…. that I guess is British Democracy in action…..
Les Wallage
Hi everyone, I can remember going to the this bar and one or two others in my mid teens. I use to visit Soho every now and again with Peter Hales, Alan Martin, and others whose names I cannot recall. Not sure when this photo was taken but it looks like someone has travelled back in time, the person just left of centre looks like he's talking on a mobile phone, anyone else notice that?
Ramondo Silk
The Look at Life series by Rank covered coffee bars, there was also one called Le Macabre, which had skeletons and coffins for tables, it may have been in Meard Street. Here is the link:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nsRHHcq1P8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Paul Kenealy
I did notice the guy with a phone to his ear, this just goes to prove there is such a thing as time travel, for if you look closely at the clothes; dark trousers worn at half mast, Beatle haircut covering up the extended ears; you can clearly see it’s Mr Spock from one of the early episodes of Star Trek on one of their frequent visits to the past.
I watched the youtube clip and was fascinated by the wooden acting, obviously all scripted and the ‘Bob Danvers walker’ voice over. Bring back the sixties when men were men, and girls were impossible. At the end of the ‘look at life – coffee bars’ there is another fascinating look at cars in 1964. The year before I passed my test. Wow, I think I’ve owned at least 10 of the cars featured. There was a great view of the roundabout being built at the south end of Waterloo bridge, before all the skateboarders took over and the IMAX was built.
I’ve been watching these looks at life while listening to Brian Matthews ‘sounds of the sixties’ on the radio. I’ll get five bob out of my piggy bank later and ask my Dad to take me over the Arsenal.
Ramondo Silk
Think you're gonna need more than five bob to see the mighty gunners, they might let you in at the Tiny Tots though!
Chris Zindilis
Looking at Barry's photo in Soho, and having the photo enlarged and analysed, the man in the middle of the photo is almost likely listening to one of the very first transistor radios that were around from the late 50's; probably a 1957 TR-63. I remember my father having one, and he gave it to me as a parting present when I left England in 1958 returning back to Cyprus to live with my grandparents for few years.
Anybody remember these joints? Bring back memories?
Mickey Isaacs
I've actually been in there, it was painted black with skeletons and ghouls painted on the walls. I went with my parents when I was about 10. I'm sure some of the Barnsbury teachers would feel quite at home there.
Paul Kenealy
By the look of the clothes that picture could have been taken in the late 50’s, a bit early for me. I started going to soho when I was 14, so about 1962. The club Heaven and Hell was as I remember in Bateman street or Meard Street which linked Dean to Frith. That was before Ronnie’s moved from Gerrard to Frith.
I was allowed by Mr Walton in 5th year, so aged 15, to miss one morning a week to go to the National Gallery as I was ‘doing’ history of art, cos dear ol’ Walton didn’t have enough students doing ‘proper’ art to fill his GCE class. Naturally having visited the galleries I would end up in the Two I’s or Heaven and Hell for a frothy coffee and a leer at the girls who were older, wiser and too good looking to be interested in a spotty skinny runt bunking off school. I would get back on the tube from Leicester Square back to Holloway Road for the afternoon lessons.
Sometimes I would persuade Griff Lewis or Jerry Sibley to join me, but mostly I was on my own. That’s why the only GCE’s I got were History of Art, and modern London Rock n Roll. In my later years when I was supposed to be driving a cab nights, I would often pop into Ronnie’s for a nightcap, then in the morning tell my wife that I’d had a quiet night, and spent time in the café with my mates. Happy Days
Russell Profitt
I was nearly in Soho today. [6/12/13] Got out of tube at Tottenham Court Road station today and Soho was blocked off. Seems that a new station for Crossrail is being dug and built there, opposite Centre Point building - remember that going up? I was there because I bought shares in Associated British Foods. They own clothes retailer Primark. Each year I go to the AGM to protest against their use of cheap labour in places like Bangladesh etc.
This year, in addition to that, I had a go about the fact that its impossible to buy stuff in Primark and get out quickly as their queues are so long and they never have enough staff on the tills!! The Chairman said he was sorry for that but its because they were over trading (!!) [is that a tip to buy ABF, Russell? - Ed] Then, at the end they gave us all a bag of goodies, including a Christmas bobble hat with reindeers on it and some Twinings tea, Partake curry stuff, mince pies, some Primark stuff including a horrible purple tie…and a cuppa!!…. heigh ho…. that I guess is British Democracy in action…..
Les Wallage
Hi everyone, I can remember going to the this bar and one or two others in my mid teens. I use to visit Soho every now and again with Peter Hales, Alan Martin, and others whose names I cannot recall. Not sure when this photo was taken but it looks like someone has travelled back in time, the person just left of centre looks like he's talking on a mobile phone, anyone else notice that?
Ramondo Silk
The Look at Life series by Rank covered coffee bars, there was also one called Le Macabre, which had skeletons and coffins for tables, it may have been in Meard Street. Here is the link:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nsRHHcq1P8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Paul Kenealy
I did notice the guy with a phone to his ear, this just goes to prove there is such a thing as time travel, for if you look closely at the clothes; dark trousers worn at half mast, Beatle haircut covering up the extended ears; you can clearly see it’s Mr Spock from one of the early episodes of Star Trek on one of their frequent visits to the past.
I watched the youtube clip and was fascinated by the wooden acting, obviously all scripted and the ‘Bob Danvers walker’ voice over. Bring back the sixties when men were men, and girls were impossible. At the end of the ‘look at life – coffee bars’ there is another fascinating look at cars in 1964. The year before I passed my test. Wow, I think I’ve owned at least 10 of the cars featured. There was a great view of the roundabout being built at the south end of Waterloo bridge, before all the skateboarders took over and the IMAX was built.
I’ve been watching these looks at life while listening to Brian Matthews ‘sounds of the sixties’ on the radio. I’ll get five bob out of my piggy bank later and ask my Dad to take me over the Arsenal.
Ramondo Silk
Think you're gonna need more than five bob to see the mighty gunners, they might let you in at the Tiny Tots though!
Chris Zindilis
Looking at Barry's photo in Soho, and having the photo enlarged and analysed, the man in the middle of the photo is almost likely listening to one of the very first transistor radios that were around from the late 50's; probably a 1957 TR-63. I remember my father having one, and he gave it to me as a parting present when I left England in 1958 returning back to Cyprus to live with my grandparents for few years.
Paul Kenealy
Thanks for the picture of Jimi, Tam, reminds me of two trips I recently made, one to Austin Texas, and another to Dublin, to where I am flying later today.
In Austin is the Capitol Building of Texas, where you can see portraits of famous Texans like Geo Bush Snr and Jnr (if you like that sort of thing) there are various paintings of historical figures such as Davy Crockett, Sam Houston, Daniel Boone and of course Buddy Holly. On the long walk up through the park you can see a statue of a tall man in a black cape and black cowboy hat with what looks like a musket. Its only when you get up close you can see it’s Stevie Ray Vaughan the legendary guitarist leaning on his Fender Stratocaster.
In the same vein there is a great statue of Phil Lynott in Grafton Street, Dublin leaning on his Fender Precision Bass.
Maybe some future British government will put a statue of Eric Clapton with ‘blackie’ on the fourth plinth in Trafalgar Square. Or maybe not.
Thanks for the picture of Jimi, Tam, reminds me of two trips I recently made, one to Austin Texas, and another to Dublin, to where I am flying later today.
In Austin is the Capitol Building of Texas, where you can see portraits of famous Texans like Geo Bush Snr and Jnr (if you like that sort of thing) there are various paintings of historical figures such as Davy Crockett, Sam Houston, Daniel Boone and of course Buddy Holly. On the long walk up through the park you can see a statue of a tall man in a black cape and black cowboy hat with what looks like a musket. Its only when you get up close you can see it’s Stevie Ray Vaughan the legendary guitarist leaning on his Fender Stratocaster.
In the same vein there is a great statue of Phil Lynott in Grafton Street, Dublin leaning on his Fender Precision Bass.
Maybe some future British government will put a statue of Eric Clapton with ‘blackie’ on the fourth plinth in Trafalgar Square. Or maybe not.
Finsbury Park
Roger Ruthen
I was talking to Roger Ruthen the other day, as you know he has recently joined our mailing list, and he told me that in the 1950's he lived in the Hornsey Wood Tavern in Seven Sisters Road right opposite Finsbury Park. Now he doesn't know if it is his imagination, but swears that he remembers a massive wooden structure that was built in the park towards the Manor House end, and he was told that it was a Ski-Jump, and in the winter it was used for just that. It was dismantled by the time he moved to The Lord Nelson in Holloway Road in 1959. He has looked on the Internet but cannot find any reference to it, so does any Gobb remember anything about it. Roger thinks people like Mickey Isaacs might know as he lived in Blackstock Road, Finsbury Park and went to 'Ambler' with Roger.
Barry Page
Nothing on my radar. The London Blitz American Football Club occupies the Finsbury Park Stadium, which may be near where Roger thinks the ski jump was. I'll keep looking.
Johnny Pearce
There was a ski jump at Alexandra Park.
Paul Kenealy
Very interesting to me as I lived in Alexandra Grove (Seven Sisters Road) when I got married in 1966. The H W Tavern was my local, although I didn’t go to pubs much in those days. I don’t remember either the ski slope or any recollection of it locally, so it must have lasted maybe only one winter, possibly ’63 as the snow lasted for three months as we have already discussed.
I don’t know of a ‘stadium’ Barry, but there certainly is a baseball diamond on the North East corner of the park, which is separated from the rest of the park by the New River. There used to be a cricket square on that field, but these days there doesn’t seem to be much interest in Cricket, possibly because the West Indian population have mostly moved out to be replaced by East European people. I don’t believe there is a tradition of cricket playing in Turkey.
I drive by Finsbury Park at least a couple of days a week, and you can still drive in through the gate in Endymion Road. I’ll have a drive in there one day to see if there is a ‘stadium’ anywhere.
Tam Joseph
I lived in Wilberforce Rd. In the early '60 and can't remember any sort of large structure. It was quite an interesting park back in those days. Barnsbury Boy Sports day was held there on more than one one occasion and I can remember Tony Manni winning lot's of races!
The park had trees back then and there were lots of going's on in the woods. It also had a pond where you could go boating and I would try to recognise the local wildlife with stuff I had learned from PG tip s cards. It also sported a model railway.
I still live in the area nearer to Wood Green and as you mentioned, I've watched as the cricket pitch has gradually fallen into ruin. It's combination of many factors; cricket is still regarded as a Toff’s sport. The older generation Caribbean's were too smashed after work to even think of sport; Africans don't play cricket, and the descendants of those Caribbean’s, likewise, because you can make more money and git mo' pussy playing football.
I once observed a standoff in Finsbury Park between Sealy, a Black Barnsburian and some tough Irish guys. It was three against one but Sealy had the advantage... he had a cricket bat!
Micky Simmonds
Talking about Sealy - fearsome bowler and when he opened the bowling with Terry Eyles all batsman were in fear.
Micky Isaacs
I spent a lot of time in FP as a youngster and used to go train spotting from the specially erected platform by the tennis courts, where the railway to Stroud green branched off. I remember a running track with I think a rudimentary grandstand at the north end of the park, but no other structures, we moved in May 1960, so it might be after that of course.What sticks in my mind are the cinder football pitches by the railway, the boating lake which still exists and the summer open air shows organised by the LCC featuring another long lost entertainment, concert parties.These took place by the cafe and lake. Just before we left there were a couple of sites for the construction of the pilot tunnels for the Victoria Line. At that time there were a lot of bushes and wooded areas, removed in the sixties for safety reasons, I seem to remember there was also a bandstand, but never saw it used.
Barry Page
Johnny Pearce may be right about the ski jump at the Ally Pally and I think there was an artificial ski slope there, too.
Ramondo Silk
I don't remember a ski slope, but I do recall they used to have a model village layout there. As regards Ally Pally, don't remember a ski slope, but they did have a horse racing track, don't know if it's still there?
Alan French
The racetrack closed many years ago. It was known as the frying pan. I went there once in the 60's. Walked from the bus stop with hundreds of people to the track, facilities were a bit bare.
Ramondo Silk
There did use to be a ski slope at Haringey? Apparently it was the first one in the country. Could this be the long lost ski slope?
Johnny Pearce
I remember the race track at Ally Pally. Me and my brother had an allotment in the middle of the course, no wonder we had plenty of manure. I also remember the dogs at Haringey and the stock car racing. Everything’s gone now.
Roger Ruthen
In the early 1950's they built an International Ski Jump on Hampstead Heath:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/25/newsid_2786000/2786871.stm
Anyway they had an International competition made up of mainly Norwegian entrants and hoped that it would become a regular competition. Well, unfortunately in spite of several attempts the competition was never held again. I am wondering if one of those attempts was to re-build the ski jump in Finsbury Park for a short time, or even just store it there whilst trying to get this International competition going, and when that failed maybe they moved it to Ally Pally. Shame it never got off the ground, so to speak.
Denis Bailey
While still at BB I used to go up to Ally Pally to the roller skating rink - sometimes cycling there. I remember there being a race track - there was one jockey who I think was a course specialist- something like Duncan Keith - never saw any racing there.
Did freewheel down most of down the hill once on my bike - once was enough. Seem to remember they had a funfair there at times. Believe the BBC studio was still operating then.
Did I see a classic car show there once or am I mixing it up with somewhere else?
John Fairbanks
No, you're not imagining it, there were Classic Car Shows at Ally Pally. The last one I went to was about 2005, I think. They were held March/April time.
Denis Bailey
Hi John, thanks for that - glad to know my memory hasn't gone completely - Yet.
It's a bit hazy but I think there was also some big rave there in the 60s or 70s or even 80s which made the national press - I can't remember why though.
It also served as a mass torture chamber for the CII Inquisition every April in the 60s.( Otherwise known as examinations.)
Barry Page
Denis, thanks for the memories. Knowing that hill, I can see why it was just a one time experience freewheeling down - hair-raising, to say the least! Yes, there was a funfair (like Hampstead Heath) there, and the BBC studios were very much in operation at the time - quite revolutionary in terms of TV technology. Not sure about the classic car show, they always seem to be at Olympia, etc.
The roller skating rink (see images) brought back an old recollection, described in my memoirs as follows:
" … Another encounter was a blind date set up by my good friend Phil Davies. Phil had shown a keen interest in an ex-Laycock girl, Doris Stothard, and had got up the nerve to ask her out. For a while things seemed quite rosy. Doris lived in Liverpool Buildings on the Liverpool Road block and I remember seeing her fresh for a date with Phil, dressed to the nines – including copious make-up, cotton gloves, Juliet cap, etc. – every inch the prim and proper miss. For his part, Phil would also be quite dapper.
Anyhow, somewhere along the line, Phil decided that it would be nice to make up a foursome and he got wind of a young lady just right for me. A clandestine arrangement was made whereby we would all meet at Alexandra Palace for a spot of roller skating on the rink there. We duly made our rendezvous, but I was quite crestfallen when meeting my blind date – certainly she was no oil painting! Despite some stalwart attempts by Phil in trying to “get things going”, the episode fizzled significantly after I had escorted the young lady home. In the meantime, Phil had a good thing going with Doris, but the affair didn’t last long and eventually they went their separate ways. … “
Griff Lewis
You are quite correct, I saw Pink Floyd there sometime late 60's. On same gig were Animals, Julie Driscoll and the Trinity and quite a few others; in fact I just did a search and found a link to it, as below,
http://www.ukrockfestivals.com/International-Love-In.html
Denis Bailey
Hi Griff thanks for the link that's what I remembered - sounds great really sorry I never went.
Paul Kenealy
You’re lucky you met her there Barry, otherwise if you’d picked her up from home you would have had to walk UPHILL to Ally Pally as well as downhill to walk her home.
Barry Page
Yes. it's quite a drag up the hill. Another unrelated incident I remember was the first "all-nighter" I went to. My mate, Roger Mason, threw a party in the house he shared with his nurse girlfriend somewhere near the Ally Pally. It was a good rave, but by the time those staying overnight called it quits, the only relatively comfortable place I could find to kip was in a big armchair. Even so, it was not conducive to bring on sleep. When I left the house to wander home (fortunately downhill) I was like a zombie and I can still see the BBC tower looming over me like some demonic phallus - as if to say "That'll teach yer" - as I progressed (staggered) back to Highbury.
Roger Ruthen
I was talking to Roger Ruthen the other day, as you know he has recently joined our mailing list, and he told me that in the 1950's he lived in the Hornsey Wood Tavern in Seven Sisters Road right opposite Finsbury Park. Now he doesn't know if it is his imagination, but swears that he remembers a massive wooden structure that was built in the park towards the Manor House end, and he was told that it was a Ski-Jump, and in the winter it was used for just that. It was dismantled by the time he moved to The Lord Nelson in Holloway Road in 1959. He has looked on the Internet but cannot find any reference to it, so does any Gobb remember anything about it. Roger thinks people like Mickey Isaacs might know as he lived in Blackstock Road, Finsbury Park and went to 'Ambler' with Roger.
Barry Page
Nothing on my radar. The London Blitz American Football Club occupies the Finsbury Park Stadium, which may be near where Roger thinks the ski jump was. I'll keep looking.
Johnny Pearce
There was a ski jump at Alexandra Park.
Paul Kenealy
Very interesting to me as I lived in Alexandra Grove (Seven Sisters Road) when I got married in 1966. The H W Tavern was my local, although I didn’t go to pubs much in those days. I don’t remember either the ski slope or any recollection of it locally, so it must have lasted maybe only one winter, possibly ’63 as the snow lasted for three months as we have already discussed.
I don’t know of a ‘stadium’ Barry, but there certainly is a baseball diamond on the North East corner of the park, which is separated from the rest of the park by the New River. There used to be a cricket square on that field, but these days there doesn’t seem to be much interest in Cricket, possibly because the West Indian population have mostly moved out to be replaced by East European people. I don’t believe there is a tradition of cricket playing in Turkey.
I drive by Finsbury Park at least a couple of days a week, and you can still drive in through the gate in Endymion Road. I’ll have a drive in there one day to see if there is a ‘stadium’ anywhere.
Tam Joseph
I lived in Wilberforce Rd. In the early '60 and can't remember any sort of large structure. It was quite an interesting park back in those days. Barnsbury Boy Sports day was held there on more than one one occasion and I can remember Tony Manni winning lot's of races!
The park had trees back then and there were lots of going's on in the woods. It also had a pond where you could go boating and I would try to recognise the local wildlife with stuff I had learned from PG tip s cards. It also sported a model railway.
I still live in the area nearer to Wood Green and as you mentioned, I've watched as the cricket pitch has gradually fallen into ruin. It's combination of many factors; cricket is still regarded as a Toff’s sport. The older generation Caribbean's were too smashed after work to even think of sport; Africans don't play cricket, and the descendants of those Caribbean’s, likewise, because you can make more money and git mo' pussy playing football.
I once observed a standoff in Finsbury Park between Sealy, a Black Barnsburian and some tough Irish guys. It was three against one but Sealy had the advantage... he had a cricket bat!
Micky Simmonds
Talking about Sealy - fearsome bowler and when he opened the bowling with Terry Eyles all batsman were in fear.
Micky Isaacs
I spent a lot of time in FP as a youngster and used to go train spotting from the specially erected platform by the tennis courts, where the railway to Stroud green branched off. I remember a running track with I think a rudimentary grandstand at the north end of the park, but no other structures, we moved in May 1960, so it might be after that of course.What sticks in my mind are the cinder football pitches by the railway, the boating lake which still exists and the summer open air shows organised by the LCC featuring another long lost entertainment, concert parties.These took place by the cafe and lake. Just before we left there were a couple of sites for the construction of the pilot tunnels for the Victoria Line. At that time there were a lot of bushes and wooded areas, removed in the sixties for safety reasons, I seem to remember there was also a bandstand, but never saw it used.
Barry Page
Johnny Pearce may be right about the ski jump at the Ally Pally and I think there was an artificial ski slope there, too.
Ramondo Silk
I don't remember a ski slope, but I do recall they used to have a model village layout there. As regards Ally Pally, don't remember a ski slope, but they did have a horse racing track, don't know if it's still there?
Alan French
The racetrack closed many years ago. It was known as the frying pan. I went there once in the 60's. Walked from the bus stop with hundreds of people to the track, facilities were a bit bare.
Ramondo Silk
There did use to be a ski slope at Haringey? Apparently it was the first one in the country. Could this be the long lost ski slope?
Johnny Pearce
I remember the race track at Ally Pally. Me and my brother had an allotment in the middle of the course, no wonder we had plenty of manure. I also remember the dogs at Haringey and the stock car racing. Everything’s gone now.
Roger Ruthen
In the early 1950's they built an International Ski Jump on Hampstead Heath:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/25/newsid_2786000/2786871.stm
Anyway they had an International competition made up of mainly Norwegian entrants and hoped that it would become a regular competition. Well, unfortunately in spite of several attempts the competition was never held again. I am wondering if one of those attempts was to re-build the ski jump in Finsbury Park for a short time, or even just store it there whilst trying to get this International competition going, and when that failed maybe they moved it to Ally Pally. Shame it never got off the ground, so to speak.
Denis Bailey
While still at BB I used to go up to Ally Pally to the roller skating rink - sometimes cycling there. I remember there being a race track - there was one jockey who I think was a course specialist- something like Duncan Keith - never saw any racing there.
Did freewheel down most of down the hill once on my bike - once was enough. Seem to remember they had a funfair there at times. Believe the BBC studio was still operating then.
Did I see a classic car show there once or am I mixing it up with somewhere else?
John Fairbanks
No, you're not imagining it, there were Classic Car Shows at Ally Pally. The last one I went to was about 2005, I think. They were held March/April time.
Denis Bailey
Hi John, thanks for that - glad to know my memory hasn't gone completely - Yet.
It's a bit hazy but I think there was also some big rave there in the 60s or 70s or even 80s which made the national press - I can't remember why though.
It also served as a mass torture chamber for the CII Inquisition every April in the 60s.( Otherwise known as examinations.)
Barry Page
Denis, thanks for the memories. Knowing that hill, I can see why it was just a one time experience freewheeling down - hair-raising, to say the least! Yes, there was a funfair (like Hampstead Heath) there, and the BBC studios were very much in operation at the time - quite revolutionary in terms of TV technology. Not sure about the classic car show, they always seem to be at Olympia, etc.
The roller skating rink (see images) brought back an old recollection, described in my memoirs as follows:
" … Another encounter was a blind date set up by my good friend Phil Davies. Phil had shown a keen interest in an ex-Laycock girl, Doris Stothard, and had got up the nerve to ask her out. For a while things seemed quite rosy. Doris lived in Liverpool Buildings on the Liverpool Road block and I remember seeing her fresh for a date with Phil, dressed to the nines – including copious make-up, cotton gloves, Juliet cap, etc. – every inch the prim and proper miss. For his part, Phil would also be quite dapper.
Anyhow, somewhere along the line, Phil decided that it would be nice to make up a foursome and he got wind of a young lady just right for me. A clandestine arrangement was made whereby we would all meet at Alexandra Palace for a spot of roller skating on the rink there. We duly made our rendezvous, but I was quite crestfallen when meeting my blind date – certainly she was no oil painting! Despite some stalwart attempts by Phil in trying to “get things going”, the episode fizzled significantly after I had escorted the young lady home. In the meantime, Phil had a good thing going with Doris, but the affair didn’t last long and eventually they went their separate ways. … “
Griff Lewis
You are quite correct, I saw Pink Floyd there sometime late 60's. On same gig were Animals, Julie Driscoll and the Trinity and quite a few others; in fact I just did a search and found a link to it, as below,
http://www.ukrockfestivals.com/International-Love-In.html
Denis Bailey
Hi Griff thanks for the link that's what I remembered - sounds great really sorry I never went.
Paul Kenealy
You’re lucky you met her there Barry, otherwise if you’d picked her up from home you would have had to walk UPHILL to Ally Pally as well as downhill to walk her home.
Barry Page
Yes. it's quite a drag up the hill. Another unrelated incident I remember was the first "all-nighter" I went to. My mate, Roger Mason, threw a party in the house he shared with his nurse girlfriend somewhere near the Ally Pally. It was a good rave, but by the time those staying overnight called it quits, the only relatively comfortable place I could find to kip was in a big armchair. Even so, it was not conducive to bring on sleep. When I left the house to wander home (fortunately downhill) I was like a zombie and I can still see the BBC tower looming over me like some demonic phallus - as if to say "That'll teach yer" - as I progressed (staggered) back to Highbury.
Alan French
Can you remember which year Michael? We were there in 1967. The boss was named Jim, he was in the boxing world. Used to get packed. Lots of Red Barrel and Double Diamond. After the gig we went to the Golden Egg in Charing Cross Road.
[Alan is on the left in the photo along with other band members]
James Sanderson
Dear Johnny Pearce took me to my first X rated film at the Essoldo cinema. (sorry, just switched on - could've solved the name query hours ago) The film was Phantom of the Rue Morgue starring Herbert Lom. X-rated? It was about a bloody gorilla killing semi-naked girls in Parisian attics. Scene: camera switches away to red paint being thrown over plain walls while a woman screamed. I had to pull Pearcey off the floor. The reason I went with him was he looked older than I did (still does) and I stood to one side while he bought the tickets.
Barry Page
Talking of X-rated films (sort of), back in the mid-50s there was a feeble sci-fi flick, called "Fire Maidens from Outer Space", that incorporated a 'monster'. It was one of the first movies I went to on my own and was playing at the old Empire (later Essoldo) cinema in Holloway Road, just north of the Poly. Well, the film just sucked the big one! It was meant to be serious and convincing, but for me achieved the opposite reaction as being totally hilarious. The film must've been shot on an extremely low budget as the so-called spaceship shots were, in fact, WW II footage of a V2 being launched. When the spaceship was landing, it was the same footage run in reverse!
The heroes were all-American college guys, and the female component were like the Tiller Girls – all tits and teeth; the leading lady being a heartthrob at the time, Susan Shaw. The biggest joke was the 'monster' – totally unbelievable with an unconvincing roar – and I nearly pissed myself laughing at this ghoul. The film is available on YouTube, but attached is a collage that I put together. The cinema was a flea pit, too, with disgusting bogs, but weak rear doors ripe for bunking in.
Happy Days!
Alan French
Ah, Saturday Morning Pictures at Highbury Picture Palace. Yo-Yo competitions, Zoro, talent competitions etc. I remember seeing the great Gene Vincent film 'The Girl Can't Help It' there. Shame it's gone, still we can buy a bottle of wine there now.! I prefer the Cinema.
Paul Lomas
Yes Zorro, I even had the sword complete with a piece of chalk at the end for the famous Z.
Alan French
I went for the cape and mask. The horse was the back of the settee.
Barry Page
The cinema was definitely called the Essoldo. For Tony, here are two reminders of the old Ferodo railway bridge. The bridge carried the original North London Railway, and the first of the three Caledonian Road and Barnsbury stations was located on the south-west side of the bridge. Then it moved to Roman Way, then to its current location on the south-east side of the bridge (I think). The new paint job is in relation to the reactivated Cally Market (not the old cattle market), and a similar slogan has been painted on the Camden Road bridge, as part of the rebranding of Camden market.
Chris Zindilis
First I like to welcome Tony to our GoBB's group chat line. Barry and Tony, you are definitely correct about the cinema called the Essoldo. I have lots of memories of the cinema: my mother worked there as an usherette from 1964 till 1968. The manager was a good friend of our family, and because my mum had lots of spare time in her hands, she was persuaded to work there as a part-timer. As kids, Soulla (my wife) and I, used to go there and watch all the Saturday morning shows, and later on when my mum worked there we used to go in for free. Some of my school friends at the time found it difficult to believe that the beautiful lady at the Essoldo was my mother; they thought that she was my older sister. I was so proud of my mother and still cherish the memories of the time spent at the Essoldo.
Interestingly, one of Barry's photos shows the Cally bridge. Just under it, and almost by the bus stop (shown in the photo) was a small workshop where a friend of my dad's worked. They had the contract to manufacture and produce the full size Daleks that were first shown on the Doctor Who series. On a few occasions I had the chance to actually get inside one of these (then) terrifying props. A year later, when the Doctor Who tv series became famous, there was more demand for the production of the Daleks and the workshop was moved somewhere else to bigger premises. Those were the days...........
Tony Alger
Hi guys it’s the newbie here … my local cinema was opposite Caledonian Road Tube station (can’t remember its name) where I too would enjoy the likes of Zorro and Flash Gordon but my favourite was those Cowboy and Indian films that my brother and I (Yes Paul it was my brother Ken) would reenact the fighting scenes when we got home ..I would be the Indians and my brother would be the Cowboys he would hide behind a broom handle across between two chairs with a plastic rifle and I would throw real darts ..yes real darts! attempting to hit the broom handle ..as you can guess the game didn’t last long as he received a dart to the head and he retaliated by throwing it back at me which buried deep into my shin bone …safe to say our Dad gave us both a good hiding and we were banned from Saturday morning picture for two months …the things we used to do then ..how stupid we were. Also anyone from the Caledonian Road area noticed that the old ‘Ferodo’ railway has been renamed to the ‘Cally’ bridge. I think this was done after the TV documentary which was aired over a year ago, Shame I loved that bridge it was where I used to run down to meet my Dad off the bus from work…such memories
Can you remember which year Michael? We were there in 1967. The boss was named Jim, he was in the boxing world. Used to get packed. Lots of Red Barrel and Double Diamond. After the gig we went to the Golden Egg in Charing Cross Road.
[Alan is on the left in the photo along with other band members]
James Sanderson
Dear Johnny Pearce took me to my first X rated film at the Essoldo cinema. (sorry, just switched on - could've solved the name query hours ago) The film was Phantom of the Rue Morgue starring Herbert Lom. X-rated? It was about a bloody gorilla killing semi-naked girls in Parisian attics. Scene: camera switches away to red paint being thrown over plain walls while a woman screamed. I had to pull Pearcey off the floor. The reason I went with him was he looked older than I did (still does) and I stood to one side while he bought the tickets.
Barry Page
Talking of X-rated films (sort of), back in the mid-50s there was a feeble sci-fi flick, called "Fire Maidens from Outer Space", that incorporated a 'monster'. It was one of the first movies I went to on my own and was playing at the old Empire (later Essoldo) cinema in Holloway Road, just north of the Poly. Well, the film just sucked the big one! It was meant to be serious and convincing, but for me achieved the opposite reaction as being totally hilarious. The film must've been shot on an extremely low budget as the so-called spaceship shots were, in fact, WW II footage of a V2 being launched. When the spaceship was landing, it was the same footage run in reverse!
The heroes were all-American college guys, and the female component were like the Tiller Girls – all tits and teeth; the leading lady being a heartthrob at the time, Susan Shaw. The biggest joke was the 'monster' – totally unbelievable with an unconvincing roar – and I nearly pissed myself laughing at this ghoul. The film is available on YouTube, but attached is a collage that I put together. The cinema was a flea pit, too, with disgusting bogs, but weak rear doors ripe for bunking in.
Happy Days!
Alan French
Ah, Saturday Morning Pictures at Highbury Picture Palace. Yo-Yo competitions, Zoro, talent competitions etc. I remember seeing the great Gene Vincent film 'The Girl Can't Help It' there. Shame it's gone, still we can buy a bottle of wine there now.! I prefer the Cinema.
Paul Lomas
Yes Zorro, I even had the sword complete with a piece of chalk at the end for the famous Z.
Alan French
I went for the cape and mask. The horse was the back of the settee.
Barry Page
The cinema was definitely called the Essoldo. For Tony, here are two reminders of the old Ferodo railway bridge. The bridge carried the original North London Railway, and the first of the three Caledonian Road and Barnsbury stations was located on the south-west side of the bridge. Then it moved to Roman Way, then to its current location on the south-east side of the bridge (I think). The new paint job is in relation to the reactivated Cally Market (not the old cattle market), and a similar slogan has been painted on the Camden Road bridge, as part of the rebranding of Camden market.
Chris Zindilis
First I like to welcome Tony to our GoBB's group chat line. Barry and Tony, you are definitely correct about the cinema called the Essoldo. I have lots of memories of the cinema: my mother worked there as an usherette from 1964 till 1968. The manager was a good friend of our family, and because my mum had lots of spare time in her hands, she was persuaded to work there as a part-timer. As kids, Soulla (my wife) and I, used to go there and watch all the Saturday morning shows, and later on when my mum worked there we used to go in for free. Some of my school friends at the time found it difficult to believe that the beautiful lady at the Essoldo was my mother; they thought that she was my older sister. I was so proud of my mother and still cherish the memories of the time spent at the Essoldo.
Interestingly, one of Barry's photos shows the Cally bridge. Just under it, and almost by the bus stop (shown in the photo) was a small workshop where a friend of my dad's worked. They had the contract to manufacture and produce the full size Daleks that were first shown on the Doctor Who series. On a few occasions I had the chance to actually get inside one of these (then) terrifying props. A year later, when the Doctor Who tv series became famous, there was more demand for the production of the Daleks and the workshop was moved somewhere else to bigger premises. Those were the days...........
Tony Alger
Hi guys it’s the newbie here … my local cinema was opposite Caledonian Road Tube station (can’t remember its name) where I too would enjoy the likes of Zorro and Flash Gordon but my favourite was those Cowboy and Indian films that my brother and I (Yes Paul it was my brother Ken) would reenact the fighting scenes when we got home ..I would be the Indians and my brother would be the Cowboys he would hide behind a broom handle across between two chairs with a plastic rifle and I would throw real darts ..yes real darts! attempting to hit the broom handle ..as you can guess the game didn’t last long as he received a dart to the head and he retaliated by throwing it back at me which buried deep into my shin bone …safe to say our Dad gave us both a good hiding and we were banned from Saturday morning picture for two months …the things we used to do then ..how stupid we were. Also anyone from the Caledonian Road area noticed that the old ‘Ferodo’ railway has been renamed to the ‘Cally’ bridge. I think this was done after the TV documentary which was aired over a year ago, Shame I loved that bridge it was where I used to run down to meet my Dad off the bus from work…such memories
Photo is of Ray Sabini and Alan Dawson at Selsey circa 1965/66.
Alan French
The Tonic Mohair suits are Fab. Wonder if they are courtesy of Aubrey Morris?
James Sanderson
Pretty sure RS went to Aubrey as did I and a lot more of the Highbury Mob. AD always went to Connicks in Dalston.
Barry Page
Two other Highbury tailors come to mind, both located in Holloway Road near Highbury Corner. The first was Barrie Yarrow, a Jewish bespoke tailor whose tiny workshop was sandwiched between two other shops in a terrace - now long gone - just to the north of the car park (Majestic?) where the Highbury Picture Palace used to be. My old man always went there for one-off suits.
The second outlet was N. Berg, located virtually opposite Barrie Yarrow's place in the row of shops just before Digswell Street. One day I pissed off my mother by insisting buying clothes from there (it was up-market and, hence, more expensive than other clothiers) and, given our meagre lifestyle, she came down heavily on me, giving me a good lesson about the sense of values. We didn't speak for a long time afterwards, and I never looked into the shop's window again. These are acute memories of fifty-plus years ago.
Micky Simmonds
I went where my dad went - Curtis in Pentonville Road. Great mohair and blue also had a lovely Crombie made there. What was the name of the suit maker in Upper Street?
Alan French
I had a Blue Serge Suit, two Tonics, £30 each and a wedding suit £72 made at A/M. The money came from my extra job playing in the band at The New Crown, Canonbury. I have a picture of the brown tonic. The other tailor I knew was Dave Wax, Islington Green.
John Tythe
Ahh, the window to watch. I think John Collier & Montague Burton were next door to each other @ the Angel in the 60s.
Aged 16, my old man took me to his tailor – Bernard Kolsky on Kingsland Waste, for my first suit. On the second fitting the jacket was 3 inches lower on the right than on the left. Kolsky manipulated me to stand like Quasimodo / John Merrick, until the jacked appeared to be the same left to right. “There, perfect!” he said. I took off the jacket gave it back, telling him to cut it again and to phone when he’d done it. I then walked out. Got a real bollocking from my old man as he had been using Kolsky since the mid 30’s. I never got the phone call and I never went back.
Micky Simmonds
That tailor Kolsky is still on the waste but maybe with a different name. Has anyone thought of the name of the tailor at the Angel where the new Angel station is?
Johnny Pearce
Well, Mr Sanderson, at my granddaughter s birthday party last week my ex-wife told me that she had found a coat hanger in her wardrobe and it had Aubrey Morris’s name on it. Mind you we have been divorced over 20yrs. It was for the suit I got married in. She asked me if I would like it. Do you think she was trying to tell me something?
Micky Simmonds
Funny enough Alan, we used to go down the New Crown nearly every Friday night to see the live groups. My sister friend Brenda Wilson used to go out with one of the group’s players and I do believe she later married him so maybe I saw you playing but didn't know who you were.
Alan French
The Tonic Mohair suits are Fab. Wonder if they are courtesy of Aubrey Morris?
James Sanderson
Pretty sure RS went to Aubrey as did I and a lot more of the Highbury Mob. AD always went to Connicks in Dalston.
Barry Page
Two other Highbury tailors come to mind, both located in Holloway Road near Highbury Corner. The first was Barrie Yarrow, a Jewish bespoke tailor whose tiny workshop was sandwiched between two other shops in a terrace - now long gone - just to the north of the car park (Majestic?) where the Highbury Picture Palace used to be. My old man always went there for one-off suits.
The second outlet was N. Berg, located virtually opposite Barrie Yarrow's place in the row of shops just before Digswell Street. One day I pissed off my mother by insisting buying clothes from there (it was up-market and, hence, more expensive than other clothiers) and, given our meagre lifestyle, she came down heavily on me, giving me a good lesson about the sense of values. We didn't speak for a long time afterwards, and I never looked into the shop's window again. These are acute memories of fifty-plus years ago.
Micky Simmonds
I went where my dad went - Curtis in Pentonville Road. Great mohair and blue also had a lovely Crombie made there. What was the name of the suit maker in Upper Street?
Alan French
I had a Blue Serge Suit, two Tonics, £30 each and a wedding suit £72 made at A/M. The money came from my extra job playing in the band at The New Crown, Canonbury. I have a picture of the brown tonic. The other tailor I knew was Dave Wax, Islington Green.
John Tythe
Ahh, the window to watch. I think John Collier & Montague Burton were next door to each other @ the Angel in the 60s.
Aged 16, my old man took me to his tailor – Bernard Kolsky on Kingsland Waste, for my first suit. On the second fitting the jacket was 3 inches lower on the right than on the left. Kolsky manipulated me to stand like Quasimodo / John Merrick, until the jacked appeared to be the same left to right. “There, perfect!” he said. I took off the jacket gave it back, telling him to cut it again and to phone when he’d done it. I then walked out. Got a real bollocking from my old man as he had been using Kolsky since the mid 30’s. I never got the phone call and I never went back.
Micky Simmonds
That tailor Kolsky is still on the waste but maybe with a different name. Has anyone thought of the name of the tailor at the Angel where the new Angel station is?
Johnny Pearce
Well, Mr Sanderson, at my granddaughter s birthday party last week my ex-wife told me that she had found a coat hanger in her wardrobe and it had Aubrey Morris’s name on it. Mind you we have been divorced over 20yrs. It was for the suit I got married in. She asked me if I would like it. Do you think she was trying to tell me something?
Micky Simmonds
Funny enough Alan, we used to go down the New Crown nearly every Friday night to see the live groups. My sister friend Brenda Wilson used to go out with one of the group’s players and I do believe she later married him so maybe I saw you playing but didn't know who you were.
Barry Page
I thought you might be interested in this link from the Guardian: John Michael Ingram obituary, menswear designer whose refined tailoring made his clothes and shops a favourite of 1960s mods.
http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2014/jul/03/john-michael-ingram
James Sanderson
Nice one Barry, enjoyed the article. Of course, not a patch on Aubrey Morris or Connicks.
Michael Isaacs
I always had to use Adonis in Carnaby Street because they were the only ones that stocked 32 waist/34 leg trousers, I was mostly ok for jackets, although I had trouble getting the right sleeve length. I mostly had my suits made at Hepworths which I had an account at (get hep with Hepworth's) rather than John Collier (the window to watch). The other grief I used to get with shirts was that if I got my size, a 15 and a half collar, then the sleeves and body were too short, if I got a bigger size they were like a bleedin' tent. Sadly 50 years later the sizes for me have changed somewhat!!
Griff Lewis
The first suit I got was from a tailors down Seven Sisters Road, whose name I cannot now remember. I then went to Aubrey Morris, but later got most of my suits from Alfred Myers (Wardour Street opposite Brewer Street) almost next to the Marquee.
Barry Page
It was in my mid-teenage when I bought my first made-to-measure suit. It was from John Collier at the Angel, and my Dad supervised the whole exercise from initial approach through several fittings and the final product purchase. He knew the trade and so made sure the tailor didn't skimp. He told me that during the measure-up, the tailor would want to know, "Which side do you dress, sir?" When I looked at Dad mystified, he then said bluntly "In other words, which side do your balls hang!!"
It was a nice, hard wearing whistle: two-piece, single-breasted light grey with subtle pinstripe. The trousers had turn-ups and 20 inch bottoms (I think). Like Mickey Isaacs, I had the same problems with shirts. usually ended up with M & S, but the sleeves were way too short. It was the "St. Michael" quality at a reasonable price more than anything else. Shoes were another challenge with my big No. 10s, but Clarks at the Nag's Head usually could fill my needs - some nice chisel toes in particular.
Alan French
Thought you might like this, with quote about Aubrey Morris.
http://www.themodgeneration.co.uk/2010/11/mods-and-mohair.html
This is a link to a website called the Mod generation containing the article ‘Mods and Mohair Suits’ by John Leo Waters, an Islington boy from the Archway. Ed.
Micky Simmonds
My first suit was from Weaver to Wearer at the Angel; a Prince of Wales Check. Cost to my dad £9.19.6d. Then went to Economics for a pair of winkle pickers at £2.7.6d. Good old days.
Paul Lomas
Great picture of Ray & Alan. (see above) All my suits were off the peg; the best suit I owned was bottle green which I would wear to go to the Royal and Lyceum to pull the birds :) Great days listening and dancing to 'The Johnny Howard Band'.
I thought you might be interested in this link from the Guardian: John Michael Ingram obituary, menswear designer whose refined tailoring made his clothes and shops a favourite of 1960s mods.
http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2014/jul/03/john-michael-ingram
James Sanderson
Nice one Barry, enjoyed the article. Of course, not a patch on Aubrey Morris or Connicks.
Michael Isaacs
I always had to use Adonis in Carnaby Street because they were the only ones that stocked 32 waist/34 leg trousers, I was mostly ok for jackets, although I had trouble getting the right sleeve length. I mostly had my suits made at Hepworths which I had an account at (get hep with Hepworth's) rather than John Collier (the window to watch). The other grief I used to get with shirts was that if I got my size, a 15 and a half collar, then the sleeves and body were too short, if I got a bigger size they were like a bleedin' tent. Sadly 50 years later the sizes for me have changed somewhat!!
Griff Lewis
The first suit I got was from a tailors down Seven Sisters Road, whose name I cannot now remember. I then went to Aubrey Morris, but later got most of my suits from Alfred Myers (Wardour Street opposite Brewer Street) almost next to the Marquee.
Barry Page
It was in my mid-teenage when I bought my first made-to-measure suit. It was from John Collier at the Angel, and my Dad supervised the whole exercise from initial approach through several fittings and the final product purchase. He knew the trade and so made sure the tailor didn't skimp. He told me that during the measure-up, the tailor would want to know, "Which side do you dress, sir?" When I looked at Dad mystified, he then said bluntly "In other words, which side do your balls hang!!"
It was a nice, hard wearing whistle: two-piece, single-breasted light grey with subtle pinstripe. The trousers had turn-ups and 20 inch bottoms (I think). Like Mickey Isaacs, I had the same problems with shirts. usually ended up with M & S, but the sleeves were way too short. It was the "St. Michael" quality at a reasonable price more than anything else. Shoes were another challenge with my big No. 10s, but Clarks at the Nag's Head usually could fill my needs - some nice chisel toes in particular.
Alan French
Thought you might like this, with quote about Aubrey Morris.
http://www.themodgeneration.co.uk/2010/11/mods-and-mohair.html
This is a link to a website called the Mod generation containing the article ‘Mods and Mohair Suits’ by John Leo Waters, an Islington boy from the Archway. Ed.
Micky Simmonds
My first suit was from Weaver to Wearer at the Angel; a Prince of Wales Check. Cost to my dad £9.19.6d. Then went to Economics for a pair of winkle pickers at £2.7.6d. Good old days.
Paul Lomas
Great picture of Ray & Alan. (see above) All my suits were off the peg; the best suit I owned was bottle green which I would wear to go to the Royal and Lyceum to pull the birds :) Great days listening and dancing to 'The Johnny Howard Band'.
James Sanderson
Enclosed is an old photo of mine. Not clear, a Polaroid, I seem to recall.
It is 1966 World Cup Day, late afternoon and we have just won the Cup.
Although working in a betting shop (six-day week) by some fluke I took that week off to go on holiday to Cornwall with my girlfriend, her girl friend with whom she worked and attendant boyfriend of said lady. Roy drove a nice Zodiac and later became a cab driver. (there seems to be an epidemic of them). We stayed in a big house and I cannot remember where.
A sign of the times? We are just about to drive home - a long journey - and I am dressed to go out. Aubrey Morris two-piece in blue, not tonic. White shirt and slim tie. Why am I dressed like this and not casually? I can't answer my own question, it just seemed appropriate at the time.
Never thought about it before but why wasn't I dressed in jeans or summer trousers with moccasins or tasselled loafers and Ben Sherman or Fred Perry?
P.S. There were two German couples also staying at the B&B and they, like us, stayed on to watch the match. You could not replicate the vibes in that room during the match. Something I've never forgotten.
Enclosed is an old photo of mine. Not clear, a Polaroid, I seem to recall.
It is 1966 World Cup Day, late afternoon and we have just won the Cup.
Although working in a betting shop (six-day week) by some fluke I took that week off to go on holiday to Cornwall with my girlfriend, her girl friend with whom she worked and attendant boyfriend of said lady. Roy drove a nice Zodiac and later became a cab driver. (there seems to be an epidemic of them). We stayed in a big house and I cannot remember where.
A sign of the times? We are just about to drive home - a long journey - and I am dressed to go out. Aubrey Morris two-piece in blue, not tonic. White shirt and slim tie. Why am I dressed like this and not casually? I can't answer my own question, it just seemed appropriate at the time.
Never thought about it before but why wasn't I dressed in jeans or summer trousers with moccasins or tasselled loafers and Ben Sherman or Fred Perry?
P.S. There were two German couples also staying at the B&B and they, like us, stayed on to watch the match. You could not replicate the vibes in that room during the match. Something I've never forgotten.
Johnny Pearce
Me and Micky O'Donnell in our prime. What a pair of skinny buggers, you should see me now!!! We do not know who took the photo, but it was 1965 at Butlins, Minehead, Somerset. |
Alan Liddiard
this photo was taken in Brighton circa 1964, this and a few other photo's were given to me by my old friend Jimmy Reynolds whom I had not seen for more than 30yrs. I bought this beige suit in Hepworths Kings X, I think at the bottom of the Cally. Jimmy, myself and our other long time mate, Kenny Clover used to live in Naish Court, Bemerton St. Haircut courtesy of a trendy hair dresser's along the Cally, whose name escapes me for the moment. |